Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 0:00

So many dedicated healthcare professionals end up exhausted, disconnected, and questioning the very system they devoted their lives to. Sometimes burnout isn't just about working too hard, it's about working in a way that's no longer aligned with your deepest values. Stay tuned to hear more about this important topic from my guest, Diane Gudmundsson. Welcome to Break Free from the Burnout. I'm your host, Dr. Anastasia Chopelas, physicist turned energy healer, and I'm here to help you make the quantum shifts to release hidden blocks to your success. Welcome to the show, Diane. I'm so happy you're here.

Diane Gudmundson: 0:39

Thank you so much for having me

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 0:41

Yeah. So you spent 25 years in traditional healthcare as a nurse and a nurse practitioner

Diane Gudmundson: 0:47

Mm-hmm

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 0:47

What happened that made you realize that something important was missing?

Diane Gudmundson: 0:52

Well, here's the thing, is I spent 25 years in many different environments and, working really hard, and I had this very strong drive that kept me going, which was patient-centered care. And, I got to the point where I had been through many different situations, many different clinics, because in the, in… Early in my career, I had the most incredible, position. This is when I first started as a nurse practitioner, where we were, patient-centered care was promoted. We had the most incredible leader. We had an environment that really encouraged community-centered care and patient-centered care, and it was just incredible. And so I was able to utilize things like, community-centered care, population health principles, and all these amazing things that I had learned way back in nursing school. I felt so blessed to be able to apply these to that environment. And then things changed because leadership changed. the environment completely shifted. there was pressure to see more patients. There was micromanagement. There was, a lack of support. Mm-hmm. And the, sort of the system we had put together was starting to fall apart. And so I spent the rest of my, probably the next decade looking for that again by going from environment to environment and having fun, having a, a great time, initially, but realizing, "Okay, this isn't it. Go to the next one. Okay, this isn't it." And then I finally made the decision to walk away from the healthcare system and start something I called Nurse Practitioner on Wheels. I was able to start my own mobile clinic where I was able to provide the kind of care that I felt pe- people deserved. I was able to spend the time with them and, and to listen, and to be present for them, and bring the care to them as… and listen to them."Hey, how do you want care provided?" Instead of forcing them to come into a system that, that didn't work. And so, I, worked my butt off. I had other nurse practitioners working with me at that time, and it was a very powerful experience. However, I hit the point where I was visible people were noticing me. I got the attention of the regulators, and the government and different things, 'cause I'm in Manitoba, so it's, it's a very different system here. And so a whole bunch of things came crashing down at once the pandemic hit. I lost some staff and, and I got to the point where I … It was like I was running 12 to 14 hour days, and even though I loved the work, it really did get to the point where it's like, okay, I ha- My body was telling me I just couldn't keep going. Even though my brain was like,"This is so much fun," Yeah. My body was like, "No, you can't do this anymore." And so the next phase is very in- interesting as to what happened from there. But, I'll just t- turn over to you to give me your thoughts. Yes.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 4:03

Yeah. So I completely agree. I think a lot of us that love what we're doing fall into the trap of, "Oh, I wanna do more. This is so much fun. It's not work if it feels like this." But, there's a time when you have to just let your body recuperate and rejuvenate from the constant demands of other people. So when you say patient centered care, you mean that you focus on them rather than the system that just shuttles them through one by one, turning it into a business rather than care. Is that what

Diane Gudmundson: 4:42

I- Yeah. E- exactly it. And here's what happened is one, once I stepped away, I actually sold everything here in Manitoba, moved to Mexico for a couple of years, decided to do an MBA in healthcare leadership because I thought,"Okay, if I ever come back to healthcare, I wanna come back in a different capacity so that I can make more of a difference."

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 5:01

Mm-hmm.

Diane Gudmundson: 5:01

And so here's where I just by stepping away and gaining perspective and doing the healing work, then I was able to see things a little differently, right? I was able to just gain a new perspective, right? And part of what happened was, I realized that healthcare leadership, because of my ex- I have multiple experiences, right?'Cause remember that, my example of my first job, that when you have an incredible leader, it ripples down to the staff- Yes … because they're so excited and thrilled to do their job, and they're so empowered encouraged and, and lifted up. And, you're able to tap into their strengths, like… And so the end result is the patients get the best care from that kind of team. And so this is what set me on this path to focus on, hey, if we want patient-centered care, we have to have patient-centered leaders, and that's the only way. And it set me down this path to say,"Okay, what or how, would I describe patient-centered leadership?" and I thought at the very root of that is the concept that when you're looking after patients, there's a power differential, right? Because you're e- either you're the boss- Yes or you're the doctor, or you're the nurse practitioner, and now we have somebody in front of you. So it could be a junior staff member on your team, it could be your patient in front of you, and there is clearly, a power differential. And so how responsible we are with the power that we're given makes all the difference because this is what I initially thought when I was a nurse-nurse. I had leadership positions, but I was trained from way back in my experiences and even my childhood that, that leadership meant authoritarian. It meant command and control. You have to be the boss, and you're supposed to know everything, and you're responsible for everybody. And all the… you, you carry so much, and it becomes this very- Yeah … heavy thing. And then you become, like, hard to work for because seriously, who wants a leader like that? So I mean, I had to learn my own lessons. but this is what I realized, is that I got to the point where I was like, okay, when we're put into… We're given the responsibility of power, no matter who we are, it… We could be a parent, we could be a doctor, we could be a, a, a CEO or a, a director or whatever, we have a responsibility to protect vulnerability when, when we're given that kind of responsibility. Well, yeah. So that's what

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 7:36

led me

Diane Gudmundson: 7:37

down

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 7:37

that path. It's just like with… Right.

Diane Gudmundson: 7:39

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 7:39

And, before, as a professor, I was responsible to help children, children, young adults get educated so they could become doctors or engineers or physicists. That was my… And I felt that responsibility, like, I really want them to learn this so they can succeed, but that's nothing compared to a health outcome. So I can understand- Mm-hmm … when you have all of those people to be responsible for, what a burden of responsibility that is

Diane Gudmundson: 8:15

Right. And it's… And it's so easy to get carried away because, sometimes when you get put into positions of power you, you feel, ag- it all depends on, on, on what your life has been like, right? So one of the taglines on the book I'm writing is called The Leaders We Become Reflect the Lives that We've Lived, right? Yeah. So we become programmed and socialized and trained to be… to lead people in a certain way, to be, bossy or, like the… like my experience. Like, I thought that leadership had to be that way. But-

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 8:46

Are you an oldest child?

Diane Gudmundson: 8:48

Yes.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 8:49

Me too.

Diane Gudmundson: 8:49

I am. So of course, right? So we learn it from like, from way back, right? And every one of us has that where we hold that power somewhere in our life, whether we're a healthcare provider, or we're a patient, or we're a teacher, or we're a, e- even a, even a partner, right? Where one person has more influence, and the other person has some degree of vulnerability. They don't have to be a vulnerable person per se, but there's a difference between the power that one person has compared to the other. So I call that the power differential. Like, there's one has slightly more power than the other, right? So we have a responsibility to protect that, that vulnerability of that other person.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 9:30

Yeah. I wish more people- Yeah … would see it that way. That is a beautiful way to, to look at it, that when you have more power is to be, to be more mindful of, of, of having it, and be more mindful of protecting the person with lesser. It's just like a mother-child relationship. Yeah. We have the responsibility to take care of them. So, so i- in my reading of some of you said that a real healthcare begins with listening and connection. Why are those two things so powerful?

Diane Gudmundson: 10:06

So here's the thing, right? So if you think about sitting in a doctor's office, right? So you're worried, you're definitely in, in the most vulnerable position because how many of us wanna be patients? Like, nobody. Nobody wants to be a patient, right?

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 10:22

Mm-hmm.

Diane Gudmundson: 10:23

But the healthcare provider is the one that has the knowledge, the authority, the influence. And so the question is, like, how is that, that used? And so if that practitioner rushes in and before even properly hearing your story, they have all the answers- … well, it's, it's… You immediately become disempowered, and you shrink, and you become smaller. And, and, like… But if that practitioner comes in and immediately slows down- And then, and then recognizes that what we call that power differential, they recognize that you're in a vulnerable position, and they pause, and they truly listen, and you feel seen, is c- it transforms that connection, right?

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 11:06

Oh, it-

Diane Gudmundson: 11:06

And here,

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 11:07

here's- It absolutely does. I ha- the reason why I giggled is I had that exact experience where I just said a couple of things, and the doctor came in and said, "I think you need an antidepressant." And I go, "You're not listening to me. I don't need an antidepressant, and I won't take one. I won't take anything psychotropic. I need my brain to function, and I'm actually quite happy, it's just I don't have the energy." And so I just kept repeating myself until he got the point. But I've had this happen so many times, so people need… m- you really have to advocate for yourself if you're in a situation like that. And of course, he was the best endocrinologist in Las Vegas, where I was living at the time, so I didn't have much of a choice, but I eventually got him to come around, and he gave me what I needed. And when I came back three months later and I was doing so much better, he goes,"Oh, it's so good we could help you."

Diane Gudmundson: 12:08

Oh.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 12:09

So he d- he took responsibility.

Diane Gudmundson: 12:12

Oh my gosh.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 12:13

But I've had nothing but good luck here. I've had some really… I live in the Los Angeles area now. I've had some really tremendously good doctors that I'm very happy with. Yeah.

Diane Gudmundson: 12:24

But see, you're somebody who is able to advocate for yourself.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 12:28

Yes.

Diane Gudmundson: 12:28

And so this is where I think it's really important. And when I did a TED Talk on listening from the patient's perspective, and there was young people that came up to me, and like p- young people that who are, who are in medical school and said, "You need to teach this to our… Like, you need to put this in our curriculum," right? Yeah. Because the, because listening, and this is the way I look at it, is listening is not just a communication skill, but it's actually, if you think of it this way, listening is one of the ways that power differential starts to become safe.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 12:59

Yes.

Diane Gudmundson: 13:00

You see? And,

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 13:01

and not only that-

Diane Gudmundson: 13:02

So that's a big thing… Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: but listening practice, and most of my job is listening to see where they're going off because healing is spiritual, emotional, mental, and physical, and the emotional and the mental part play such big roles. So when you listen to where they're at emotionally and mentally, like what their thinking is, it leads to much better results. And I think that in healthcare, traditional healthcare, not just energy healing, but traditional healthcare, that's… it's just as important. Absolutely. And, I actually chuckled because as I was writing about this in my book, I actually thought of, a, a movie, and I thought of Spider-Man because his father said to him, "With great power comes great responsibility." and I… it just struck me. I thought, "That's it." And that's how I- Yes … came up with this thing. It's like listening is the one of the ways that, that you can be responsible with your power. Like, it's such a big deal, right? And I could see this w- no matter where I was, and I've been operating in healthcare system for 25 years. I could see the difference between people that were heard and not heard, right? And it operates the same in your families, in schools, in communities, if you're leading groups, like any place where somebody has influence over another person.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 14:33

Yeah.

Diane Gudmundson: 14:33

Yeah.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 14:34

And it's interesting because I grew up in a time where women, at least in my first 20 years, women didn't have a lot of, what I wanna say, privileges. They couldn't have their own bank account if they were married. They couldn't… There were many jobs they weren't allowed to do. So it's really interesting how things have shifted. But it used to be that we were, as women, we were the ones that were in the inferior position. And it's interesting that both you and I are like, "No, we have the power." We have the power.

Diane Gudmundson: 15:11

But once you've been in vulnerable positions, and I have been there as a patient. I've had some… I'm not gonna get into all the details 'cause I have many examples, even horrific birth experiences where I wasn't heard, and I was gonna be cut open without any anesthetic. th- there's a whole story around that I did put in my book because I thought,"Oh my God, this is a perfect example of being an inconvenience instead of actually listening to what I'm saying." and so that was e- extremely scary. Yeah.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 15:40

Yeah. When I… I had that same experience when I was in a hospital in Germany. And because I strongly advocated for myself and I kept telling them this and this, and as I was checking out they said, "We're gonna miss you, Frau

Diane Gudmundson: 15:58

Chopelas." but that, I think that's really important, to be able to stand up for yourself. Yes. And I think that's part, part of, the way I help people. And, I, I work with healthcare leaders obviously because we wanna- That's wonderful … we want health. We want patient-centered organizations, and we want patient-centered leaders'cause that's what's gonna give us patient-centered organizations.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 16:17

Yes.

Diane Gudmundson: 16:18

but I-

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 16:18

And is this… So you're in Canada. Yes. So is this dripping into the US? Are you- Y-

Diane Gudmundson: 16:22

yes. So it's not specific to Canadian healthcare because it's any system that has- Mm-hmm where there's the leader, right? Because, what I do is help people to understand themselves first because… And that's why what I'm doing through a lot of my books and speaking and coaching and things like that is because when you understand yourself first, identity is the first step. Because knowing yourself and how- Yes … you're operating and how you're making decisions and choices and the, your behaviors, it's all a reflection of, your identity. And so working at that, with that on a foundational level is part of what I do as well.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 16:59

Yeah. Mm-hmm. And once, once you know yourself, like for me, if people level a criticism at me I can say, "Yes, that's true," or, "No, that isn't," and not feel bad about it either way. Like, don't feel guilty about it. Right? So that- So,

Diane Gudmundson: 17:17

so you feel confident in yourself, who, in who you are, and that's your identity.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 17:21

Yeah, and that's the identity- Right. Yeah … and that's important for leadership.

Diane Gudmundson: 17:25

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 17:25

Right? to recognize other people, but also to recognize yourself, because if you keep getting knocked off the pedestal all the time by unfair or incorrect criticism, then you can't be an effective leader either

Diane Gudmundson: 17:42

Yeah, exactly. And Yeah part of what we do is until we get to know ourselves and feel confident in who we are is a lot of our old programming, and I'm sure you can identify with this, the old patterns, that, and, and, th- being not enough and, and getting easily triggered and taking thing per- ta- taking things personally. This, all the kind of stuff, we can bring that into our work, right? And into our leadership, and so it can lead to people pleasing or over-controlling or holding it. Yes. you can burn out very easily because you start to feel like you have to carry everybody's emotions and all this kind of stuff. So it, all those patterns, it's, it's… That's why it's so important to really understand yourself and, and get to know who you are underneath all of those, all of that- Yeah… programming and all those old patterns. yeah.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 18:32

Yeah, 'cause my next question was gonna be, so many of my listeners are healers, coaches, and wellness professionals who genuinely care about helping others, yet they're often exhausted. So that burnout that you were just talking about, so first of all is recognizing who you are first. Mm-hmm. And that helps them restore their own energy so they can c- can continue serving at a high level.

Diane Gudmundson: 18:59

Right, because a lot of us, we're leading, whether it's we're leading our family, we're leading our teams, we're the leader in our business- Right we're leading consults like, like you do with your healing. And so, that comes with, really if you can understand yourself on a deeper level and have compassion instead of having the critical voice-

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 19:20

Mm-hmm… Diane Gudmundson: that is going to change lead whatever, whatever environment you're in, to lead with ease and flow- Mm-hmm and a sense of self that you ha- that you f- it's, it's becomes easy. It doesn't become where you feel like the, the flashlight or the spotlight's always on you. Like, "Oh, do I look good enough?" or,"Do I know enough yet?" Or h- am I, am I responsible for this person's outcome? And that kind of stuff. So the flashlight, like the spotlight's on you when you're not fully healed, whereas once you develop that deeper level of self-awareness and that sense of identity- Mm-hmm

Diane Gudmundson: 19:58

you can turn that spotlight and it really becomes about who you're working with, and your work becomes like a catalyst and a guide, and it becomes easy and with a flow. And that's where I a- am really a strong advocate for getting to know yourself on a deeper level so that you can have such a sense of self-awareness that it feels comfortable, that you're comfortable and accepting with- Yeah, so- who you are. Yeah… Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: yeah, I up with a high- highly critical parents, especially my mother. And after I left her, I had her voice in my head all the time, and I said,"Hey, wait a minute," and recognized. And so then I got to parent myself, where I said, if somebody came to me with my, the problem that I'm having or the issue that I'm having, what would I say?" And that changed things for me, and it was like it almost flipped the script immediately, and it… And so then instead of asking the question, "Why don't they like me?" It's like, that, that's one of the things, why don't they like me? They… Some people that are in caring for others want everybody to like them. And I- But that's because they have the spotlight on themselves. Exactly. But as soon as you develop that sense, that sense of self-awareness and a cer- and certainty- Exactly … in your identity, that you're there to be a guide and a support and a, and, and like I always say, like a catalyst for that other person's transformation, because they make their own choices, right? Exactly. But you're there to support and to listen and, and to, to guide, not to be responsible for the outcomes.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 21:38

Yeah, and then so now it's like I… People that are in that situation and they go, "Well, I want them to like me." And I go, "Well, do you like everybody?" And they go, "No." I say,"Well, why should everybody like you?"

Diane Gudmundson: 21:51

Oh.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 21:52

And yeah. So it kind of puts people at, it puts people at ease to not worry about what they're projecting. And the other thing that I say is, "If you don't behave the way you normally do, you're not your normal, natural self, then people aren't gonna like the real you. They're gonna like something that you fabricated for them."

Diane Gudmundson: 22:13

And then how do you… Then you burn out because how do you maintain that mask?

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 22:16

Yeah. It's-

Diane Gudmundson: 22:17

Right? Or that- It's, it's- the way, the way you think you should be, right?

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 22:21

Exactly. So you end up spending all that energy, And so that, and so you probably encounter this too in the minority for women leadership in healthcare, for example.

Diane Gudmundson: 22:35

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 22:36

Yeah.

Diane Gudmundson: 22:37

Yeah, definitely, because it, there's a sense that y- you're more, It's, it's more of a feeling of vulnerability.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 22:44

Mm-hmm.

Diane Gudmundson: 22:44

Right? Because you feel maybe at risk or maybe more scared of judgment, or like you have to measure up to a certain standard, you know? But then that's… But that, again, that's just like putting a mask on.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 22:56

Yes.

Diane Gudmundson: 22:56

And so- Right? Because then you can't just be yourself. But if you do get comfortable in who you are and as yourself, then life becomes so much easier 'cause you can just be yourself in every situation.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 23:06

I agree. And so- Yeah … I was just gonna ask you what's the biggest lesson you've learned, and I think you've just a- you just said it, is, is-

Diane Gudmundson: 23:15

Authenticity and getting to know yourself, and that's one of the reasons why I really got into doing transformational coaching, because that really digs down to the level of the identity. And then I incorporated hypnosis, right? And then I added human design as a sort of a trifecta of way of working with people, because by combining those three modalities, it was, like, incredible how you could really get down to the root of a person. Like, the, down to the the identity and the life purpose level of an individual. Yeah.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 23:49

Yeah, I found human design very fascinating because when somebody first introduced me to the idea, they gave me my design, and I'm looking at it and I'm going, "Hmm, that's kind of funny." And all these people were saying,'cause we have an inner authority, right?

Diane Gudmundson: 24:06

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 24:07

But I don't have one. I have no inner authority. And I go, "Everybody's saying they've got an authority," and it says I have no authority, and they go,"Yeah, you have to speak it out in order for you to decide." And I've done that since I was a little kid.

Diane Gudmundson: 24:23

Yeah. And so you- It's- y- you, you decide based on on your voice output. It's, it's very interesting-

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 24:27

Yeah,

Diane Gudmundson: 24:27

so

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 24:27

it's-

Diane Gudmundson: 24:28

right? Yeah.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 24:28

Right. So I hear it. Yeah. As soon as I hear it, I go,"Okay, that's the answer."

Diane Gudmundson: 24:33

Yeah.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 24:34

Isn't that interesting? And so that,

Diane Gudmundson: 24:34

and… it is. And I…

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 24:35

So are you finding that people align… L- like, when you work with human design, do you find that people align with their design based on-

Diane Gudmundson: 24:44

Oh, it's a… It is… I have, I have to tell you that, I've been doing a lot of consults recently, and the people that have come to me, oh, they just come to me with, "Oh my gosh," like, "I'm not sure," like, "why I have this tendency or why I do this thing or why," "this, this weird thing in my relationship. It's kind of a strange thing." and we really dig into it. and it's not just human design. it's more than that. But, more often than not, they end up in, in tears with "I can't believe that I didn't realize this, for the last decade, and it's now it's transformed my life. Now I have something to go experiment with, in my relationship to try this out now because I can see how this affected my work relationships, this affected my relationship with my partner, it was causing conflict because I was operating out of the way I'm meant to communicate or things like that." Yeah. So it's very powerful.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 25:36

I found the combination of that and the Myers-Briggs personality test, and then the DiSC test give, gives people… Each test gives you an insight into who you really are because it asks questions like, when you're confronted with this situation, how do you react?

Diane Gudmundson: 25:55

Yeah. And I was really into the, the personality tests at one point. the Myers-Briggs saved the relationship with my- myself and my daughter, and the DiSC really helped me to understand myself at a whole new level, especially when I was studying leadership. and then when I found human design, I realized that the other tests were so much more general. So I could, let's say, 'cause I'm INTJ, for example, and now, there, there's probably hundreds of-

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 26:23

So that's you,

Diane Gudmundson: 26:23

INTJ? Yeah. So there's hundreds of thousands of other INTJs in the world, and so really how specific is that, right? Whereas human design, if you take the, the body chart, and the codes, and the lines and you really analyze somebody, you… There's only maybe seven other people in the world that are similar to you. Like, that's how unique that system is, and that's why I fell in love with it, and I… So I really dug into it and I've been studying it for the last four or five years. Yeah.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 26:49

if someone listening today feels burned out- Mm-hmm … disconnected from their purpose, or frustrated they aren't making the impact they want, what's the first step they can take this week to help them?

Diane Gudmundson: 26:59

I would say just, to really better understand yourself, like the way that you're wired to make decisions and to communicate with people and to relate to others is, go ahead and book a consult. Because, even just that one, one consultation in a, in a- it's in only 45 minutes, that awareness can really alter how you show up in every area of your life and change how you feel about yourself. and I experience that myself, which is why, I encourage people to do it. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 27:32

And so how can someone find you?

Diane Gudmundson: 27:35

And so basically I'm on LinkedIn, and, I also have a website, dianegudmundsen.com, where I can be found there. but the easiest place to find me would be LinkedIn.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 27:46

Yeah.

Diane Gudmundson: 27:47

Mm-hmm.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 27:48

So yes, and I will put all of this in the show notes so people will be able to find you. They'll go to www.breakfreefromtheburnout.com, and your episode will be right there when it airs,

Diane Gudmundson: 28:02

Okay. Yeah. That sounds good. And I also have a book for somebody, let's say if there's people who are, healthcare leaders and they wanna go a little bit deeper, let's say they're a healthcare professional, people leading teams, healthcare leaders, I do also have my book Rooted to Rise up for presale, so I can… It's also located at my website, and it's dianegudmundsen.com/rtrbook. Oh. So it can also be found there, where I talk about patient-centered leadership and all of that, so

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 28:30

yeah. And so when do you expect your book to come out?

Diane Gudmundson: 28:32

I was hoping August, but I think probably more likely, it'll be at the end of this year.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 28:38

So, okay, awesome. thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Your wisdom and your experiences can teach anybody, especially those of us that, that care and help others to really take a first step toward relieving themselves of the stress, understanding their responsibility, and taking good care of themselves.

Diane Gudmundson: 29:06

Exactly. And my mission, is patient-centered care, but then when it comes to, especially women over 40, I have to say is I just feel like I, I have a very strong passion and a, a sense of, a very strong advocate to help women to really get to know themselves. So to… A- and I, I've been through abusive relationships and a lot, a lot of what gets lost in us is our sense of identity, specifically narcissistic-style relationships. Yes. I've been there. And so- Me too … regaining your identity is a really big part of this, is rediscovering yourself and your true identity because your sense of self gets lost somewhere along that experience. So I'm very passionate about that.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 29:49

Yes, I can tell. Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, 'cause I think a number of us have been in abusive, narcissistic relationships, and some of them are still there. Mm-hmm. So reclaiming your identity- Yeah … is really important.

Diane Gudmundson: 30:06

Yeah. it's a big deal. Yeah. So thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Anastasia Chopelas: 30:09

Oh, you're most welcome. Thank you for joining us on Break Free from the Burnout. Did today's program resonate with you? Give it a thumbs up or five-star rating, share with your friends, and be sure to subscribe to my channel so you don't miss any future episodes. When you're ready to bring more harmony and alignment into your relationships, check out my free five-step relationship healing protocol at scientifichealer.com/relationship. Resources and show nots are available at www.breakfreefromtheburnout.com. Until next time, I'm Dr. Anastasia Chopelas sending you golden healing light and success vibes to becoming aligned, confident, and prosperous. Your gifts are so needed in this world.